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对于幽灵音的技巧讨论

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发表于 2006-1-27 21:45:55 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
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幽灵音`~这个词在许多打谱软件中看到过一般在数字左右加括号比如这样:  (4)  很多人不理解幽灵音的弹奏方法,所以小弟专门发个帖子让大家讨论然后统一下原则性的技巧方法

以下是小弟我的拙见:

现在很多指弹的谱子里大量用到了幽灵音的技巧,在GTP\PTB这两种打谱软件中得到的音效相同,似乎比实音轻,其实幽灵音顾名思义就像是实音的副音(让人有似有似无的听感)我认为最能体现出这种音效的方法就是虚按品弦后弹奏该音,比如1弦的12品,大家按实后弹下,然后虚按后弹下,这样比较起来差不多是最接近实音的弹奏方法了(同样也是最接近打谱软件中幽灵音的效果),说白了就是左手的闷音技巧(注意左右手闷出的音效差别很大)

以上是小弟个人的看法,如果哪位兄弟有异议可以顶贴共同讨论:)
发表于 2006-1-27 21:48:14 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国抖音
呵呵,我不会,没法参与讨论啊
发表于 2006-1-27 21:56:01 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国圈子
说一下我的看法。
首先是这个词或称奏法的来源。ghost note,有些软件用g.n表示,有的用()表示。
中文,有两种解释,一是 幽灵音;二是 灵魂音。
我个人认为如果非要翻译成中文,那么我会用 灵魂音。
请大家仔细体味其中的不同。这里有一些谱子可以做参考。

上传的是大家都很熟悉的tommy emmanuel的两首曲子,这样可以方便大家进行判断。

extra_tabl.rar

182.98 KB, 下载次数: 45, 下载积分: 金钱 5

pdf谱子下载

 楼主| 发表于 2006-1-27 22:00:08 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国官方快手
大哥说明下不同之处啊~~~我明白不代表别人也明白啊
发表于 2006-1-27 22:03:15 | 显示全部楼层
一首是since we met,一首是i've always thought of you。
小跃尽管说不会,但可以做判断啊:)
我的看法(一直以来也是这样),ghost note(灵魂音)不像滑音,tapping,harmony之类的让人非常熟悉,也正因此各种软件或者说打谱方式对这个奏法都有各自的理解。而就我来说,我认为指弹谱可以用ghost note表示的一类音符是需要“跳出”和弦之外,让人明显听出的音符,不能沉默于其它和弦中(希望你们对照谱子和曲子能明白我的意思)。而据得到的资料,刘传出的吉他爱好者对幽灵音(请注意区别)也有定义和示范,我一听mp3,是电吉他轻过载弹的,感觉用左手闷音的那种类似funk的效果来记谱比较确切。如果才鸟可以,请帖上来弄一个对比。
发表于 2006-1-27 22:08:09 | 显示全部楼层
这么一看,我怎么感觉就是一个轻弹的音或者是闷音啊……
发表于 2006-1-27 22:09:59 | 显示全部楼层
请举例,比如贴图
 楼主| 发表于 2006-1-27 22:14:14 | 显示全部楼层
谢谢 玲珑兄提供的资料转载与 吉他爱好者16 大家可以先看下解释的图片乐谱,示范音效由于文件太大我另外想办法尽管是电吉他所弹奏出来的,但是原则技巧还是不变的
方法.gif
谱例.gif
 楼主| 发表于 2006-1-27 22:28:37 | 显示全部楼层
图片上的X其实就是GTP\PTB这两种打谱软件中表明的 () 幽灵音的表示方法
 楼主| 发表于 2006-1-27 22:32:32 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 wangyue1983 于 2006-1-27 22:08 发表
这么一看,我怎么感觉就是一个轻弹的音或者是闷音啊……


是左手的闷音~`~~嘿嘿跃版站在我这边了:victory:
发表于 2006-2-1 11:41:17 | 显示全部楼层
我看了也觉得像是闷音啊!·
发表于 2006-2-2 10:45:10 | 显示全部楼层

MH弟子对幽灵音的解释:

I've been using the symbol (2) a lot. This represents a "ghost note", meaning: It's kinda a passing note, strummed, but ever so lightly. (I've always wanted to say "ever so") Used mostly as a filler, to get from one cord to the next.
大意是:符号(2)表示幽灵音,它是一种经过音,非常轻地弹,主要用在从一个和弦进行到下个和弦时候,扮演填充者角色.
发表于 2006-2-3 20:42:08 | 显示全部楼层
我不知道大家下了我连接的谱子没~bluesme的解释还是和我有点相近的,不过还不太一样~~
我还是那句话,可能这个ghost note的用法还是比较混乱,不同人用它来表示不同的东西,而我碰到ghost note暂时还没有见过闷音的~
另外,我很肯定的认为才鸟的贴图所说的ghost note和我说的完全是两回事!这个贴图出自刘传的吉他爱好者(可能是最近几期),mp3没有上来,明显是电琴弹的。而且带有一种funk节奏感觉。
发表于 2006-2-3 21:56:42 | 显示全部楼层
有意思,我不敢随便发表自己意见,可能话题不一样,不过感觉才鸟说得比较有道理,应该偏向于是一种闷音效果
 楼主| 发表于 2006-2-4 10:39:11 | 显示全部楼层
玲珑兄给了我2个示范音频,一个是幽灵音,另外一个是右手的闷音,(我发给robert0z 兄的是幽灵音的示范音频)同样是按照上面的那张谱子弹奏的,但效果相差很大,因为是电吉他弹奏的所以很能区别出,另外bluesme兄所说幽灵音是非常轻的弹奏,这也是有可能的,因为有的谱子上有(0)这样的幽灵音,那我的理论就不太能成立了,不过在示范音效里绝对不是轻弹出来的效果,最后还是希望大家能发表下意见以便统一(玲珑兄如果方便的话请做个幽灵音与闷音示范音效的地址让大家鉴定下)
发表于 2006-2-4 15:10:43 | 显示全部楼层
Ghost notes (aka "dead" notes) are muted notes - sounds that have rhythm but no pitch. They are one of the most important bass playing techniques to learn, as they can bring lots of feel to your bass lines.
这是出自一个bass教学网站。
What are ghost notes?
By David Hodge
February 15, 2003

The best description of a ghost note, is a note that is felt but not heard. You will play the note softer, and without emphasis. The note is usually in-between 2 parentheses. In addition, notes in parentheses could mean optional notes. For instance, if a particular riff is repeated, but sometimes the guitar player throws in some additional notes, those additional notes may be in parentheses. Do keep in mind the use of parentheses for bent notes as well.

The example below could mean either a ghost note or an optional note. There is no way of telling without a recording. And really in this context, do either and it will sound fine.

   
  
  

E:--------------------

B:--------------3-----

G:--------------2-----

D:--------------0-----

A:---3--(0)--3--------

E:--------------------

Another common answer to this question is that "ghost notes" are artificial harmonics. These are harmonics that are generated by picking a string with both your pick and your thumb. This causes the note and a harmonic (an octave above the note) to sound. It can be done on any guitar, electric or acoustic, although most people are familiar with this through the electric. Depending on your tone settings, amp and effects, it can be quite an intense, eerie sound.
这个看起来好像是一个通用的吉他的ghost note的解释(包括箱琴和电琴)
看了这么多说法,我有点动摇,所以我先否认自己开始的说法!!!
分析了一下since we met的pdf谱子(上面有下载),里面的g.n不是我说的要“跳”出来的音,这点我更正,可能这里tabber要表现的是那种passing note,像是上面bluesme的观点。
具体碰到的情况还在分析中,大家可以继续发表观点
发表于 2006-2-4 15:19:18 | 显示全部楼层
继续分析了一下pdf的stay close to me,发现里面的g.n 应该也是passing note。
继续分析Mombasa,发现问题!贴上来大家可以下载看一下(很小)。原来这个作者(注:这些pdf出自一个作者)的g.n表示的是grace note!这似乎又成了另外一个问题,不过感觉应该也是那种passing note,就像bluesme解释的。
置于其它,以后碰到还会帖到这里。
再次否定自己最开始的说法!就现在碰到的来看,过渡音这种说法还是最接近的,不知道以后会不会碰到别的例子。

Mombasa pdf谱子节选

Mombasa pdf谱子节选
发表于 2006-2-4 18:37:21 | 显示全部楼层

我怎么看都觉得像古典的泛音~~~

弹法一样的~虚按弦~~~~~~~轻弹~~~~~~~~一种飘渺的感觉
发表于 2006-2-4 23:16:44 | 显示全部楼层
楼上的不要光看谱,要听cd,这样才能对照出是什么意思:)
发表于 2006-2-21 11:38:37 | 显示全部楼层
好像不怎么理解
发表于 2008-10-31 22:51:46 | 显示全部楼层
半懂不懂的~~
发表于 2008-10-31 23:58:11 | 显示全部楼层
看来有必要把权威的wiki英文版)拿出来了:

Ghost notes are musical notes occurring in a rhythmic figure which are purposely deemphasized, often nearly to the point of silence. In popular music drumming these notes are played, "very softly between the 'main' notes," most often on the snare drum in a drum kit[1]:

Ghost note indicates by parenthesis, main notes distinguished by accents



A rhythmic figure may be punctuated by certain notes which are accented (emphasized), in which case we would say that the unaccented notes in the figure are played with a 'normal' degree of emphasis. This is the case, for instance, in a clave pattern, whose notes are spaced evenly across time but with certain notes in the pattern receiving a degree of emphasis which makes them stand out, in terms of volume, from the others. Therefore, in a clave pattern, we have accented as well as unaccented notes. (Some might argue that a clave pattern is really only made up of the accented notes, with any unaccented notes being placeholders and not part of the pattern. This is open to debate, and depends largely on instrumentational factors.)
Contents[hide]


RoleGhost notes, however, are not simply the unaccented notes in a pattern. The unaccented notes in such a pattern as a clave are considered to represent the mean level of emphasis--they are neither absolutely emphasized nor unemphasized. If one further deemphasizes one of these unaccented notes to the same or a similar extent to which the accented notes in the pattern are emphasized, then one has 'ghosted' that note. In a case in which a ghost note is deemphasized to the point of silence, that note then represents a rhythmic placeholder in much the same way as does a rest. This can be a very fine distinction, and the ability of an instrumentalist to differentiate between what is a ghost note and what is a rest is governed largely by the acoustic nature of the instrument.
Wind instruments, including the human voice, and guitars are examples of instruments generally capable of ghosting notes without making them synonymous with rests, while a pianist or percussionist would have more difficulty in creating this distinction because of the percussive nature of the instruments, which hampers the resolution of the volume gradient as one approaches silence. However, in such a case as that the ghost notes were clearly audible, while being far less prominent than the unaccented notes which represent the mean degree of emphasis within the example, then a percussionist could be said to create what we might define as ghost notes.
A frequent misconception is that grace notes and ghost notes are synonymous. A grace note is by definition decidedly shorter in length than the principal note which it 'graces', but in many examples the grace note receives a greater degree of accentuation (emphasis) than the principal itself, even though it is a much shorter note than the principal. In other words, while a grace note could be ghosted, the ghosting of notes is a function of volume rather than of duration.

NotationThe term ghost note, then, can have various meanings. The term anti-accent is more specific. Moreover, there exists a set of anti-accent marks to show gradation more specifically. Percussion music in particular makes use of anti-accent marks, as follows:
  • slightly softer than surrounding notes: u (breve)
  • significantly softer than surrounding notes: ( ) (note head in parentheses)
  • much softer than surrounding notes: [ ] (note head in brackets)
In jazz notation for wind instruments or string instruments, the intent of a composer for a note to be ghosted is often indicated by using an 'x' for a notehead rather than an oval.

ExamplesA guitarist wishing to ghost a note can decrease the pressure the fretting hand is exerting upon the strings without removing the hand from the fretboard (which would result in the sounding of the open pitches of those strings). This is sometimes called a 'scratch', and is considered a ghost note unless all the unaccented notes in the pattern were 'scratched' (in which case the scratches are unaccented notes).
On the double bass and electric bass, as with the guitar, ghost notes can be performed by muting the strings, either with the fretting hand or the plucking/picking hand, which creates notes of indeterminate pitch that have a percussive quality. On the electric bass, ghost notes are widely used in the slap bass style, as a way of creating a percussive, drum-like sound in funk and Latin music. On the double bass, percussive ghost notes are sometimes performed by slapping the strings against the fingerboard, which creates a percussive, "clacky" sound. With the double bass, slap-style ghost notes are used in rockabilly, bluegrass, and traditional blues and swing jazz.
发表于 2008-11-1 00:04:27 | 显示全部楼层
总的来说,在括号里的幽灵音,要比其他的音弱很多(significantly softer)。而对于吉他和贝司两者具体的手法略有差异。吉他是由左手(fret hand)略放松按弦而实现(同时右手拨弦的力度也应减小),也就是和咱们通常说的左手闷音接近但是声音更弱;而贝司可以包括左、右手的闷音。
发表于 2010-7-13 16:16:35 | 显示全部楼层
神贴留名~~
发表于 2011-3-1 11:18:37 | 显示全部楼层
不懂才来看看了还不懂
发表于 2011-3-1 20:23:23 | 显示全部楼层
受教啦。
发表于 2011-3-2 09:28:46 | 显示全部楼层

回复 27# Rain_m 的帖子

是不一样的
其实我到现在也不是很清楚
在卢家宏老师的微博群里有人问过这个问题
卢sir的答案是直接忽视~
看来是个仁者见人的问题
发表于 2011-3-2 22:34:32 | 显示全部楼层
不明白
发表于 2011-3-2 23:02:43 | 显示全部楼层
闷音 闷音 确定无疑
发表于 2011-4-5 20:15:40 | 显示全部楼层
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTYxMzE1MzIw.html

这个46秒处maybe是幽灵~好幽灵的感觉嘛

貌似是右手闷
发表于 2011-4-6 14:51:25 | 显示全部楼层
我觉得就是这个了~~
发表于 2011-4-6 16:50:24 | 显示全部楼层
学习了
发表于 2011-4-7 10:24:03 | 显示全部楼层

轻轻的弹

轻轻地弹
偶系这么认为的
在极端点就不弹呗~
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