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【翻译搬运】吉他用聚酯漆比较高级,还是硝基漆?

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发表于 2018-5-6 22:22:50 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
1

The Guitar Finish Debate Rages On
吉他漆面之争总也停不下来

This page is currently a loose collection of some of my thoughts and is definitely not finished. If you decide to read it before it is finished you may come away with some incorrect assumptions. Please wait till this article is finished before you make any decisions.
这篇文章是对我看法的一个松散的集合,而且可能还没有写完。如果你决定不等我写完就看,那你最好先放弃一些可能根本是错的的观点预设,而且先别忙着下定论。

There are numerous ways to paint guitars and there are people who claim that one way is better than another.
你得知道,这个世界上,总会有很多种吉他喷涂的方法,也总会有人为哪种方式更好而争论不休。

Again there are lots of opinions & arguments.  This page is to try to explain a little about the basic differences. This page is written in plain English and I have refrained from using some impressive scientific jargon "big words" that no one can relate to anyway.
最近我又听到了很多这方面的观点和争论。这篇文章就是试图解释一点这些不同方式间的基本区别。这篇文章都是用大白话写的,尽量避免用那些不明觉厉、也不知所云的科学术语,大词空词。


2

What's the Difference?
区别究竟是什么?

Poly paint jobs are easier and inexpensive to make look very good. Most every company uses it from Ibanez to PRS. Poly finishes are easily identifiable by the thick glossy finish. Polyester as opposed to Polyurethane is resin based and therefore thicker & goopier. (Not great for resonance-tone). Polyurethane is more expensive but it's thinner and sounds measurably better than Polyester.  At least this is what one of my outside paint shops told me !!!
Regarding the statement I made above !!!
聚酯漆(PE)喷涂是既方便又便宜,还能得到漂亮外观的方法。从Ibanez到PRS,大多数做吉他的公司都会用到聚酯漆。聚酯漆效果也很好认,因为它有一层又厚又亮的漆膜。跟聚氨酯漆(PU)正好相反,聚酯漆(PE)是一种树脂基的漆,因此又厚又粘稠,不利于木头的共振发声聚氨酯漆(PU)价格上会贵一些,但漆层要薄得多,并且对音色的提升肉眼可见——至少我的一家油漆店是这么告诉我的!!!
好好琢磨琢磨我上面说的话!!!

Some technoid propeller head has written me a couple of letters lately, telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. I never claimed to be a chemist, and I think they missed my point anyway. The point I am going for is to keep the finish thin.  Maybe, he didn't read the first sentence at the top of the page maybe then he would have waited to write.  I am certain that some of these people who write some of these letters are simply attention getters with too much time on their hands & may even be paid shills for the big companies to discredit anyone who exposes their little games to the public.
最近很多技术狂给我写信,喷我根本不知道自己在说什么。我从来没说过我是个化学家,而且我觉得他们根本没抓住我想说的重点。我想说的是:不管怎么样,让吉他漆面越薄越好。可能写这些信的人根本就没看我开头写的是什么,我仿佛确定一定以及肯定,写这些信的大部分都是键盘侠或者五毛党,被大公司收买来抹黑这些揭露了他们小把戏的人。

Look at a JET Guitars finish, Some sort of poly hybrid but you can plainly tell it is incredibly thin. Now look at a McNaught or a PRS finish looks good but there is so much clear that the wood pores have to be getting choked off. No problem if you are playing metal. Metal players rarely if ever read my tech articles anyway  !!!
我们可以看一下JET的吉他漆面,虽然是聚酯漆的混合物喷涂的,但还是很容易能分辨出来漆层非常的薄。反观McNaught和PRS,虽然有无与伦比的视觉效果,但很显然木头的毛孔全都被堵住了。如果你是弹金属的,这当然没问题——不过如果有金属乐手来看我这样的技术流文章,也真的可以说是稀客了!

Some of the guitar companies are floating a color finish between layers of clear. This assists in the 3 dimensional look.  Cool, except they are using way too many coats of clear and therefore the finish buildup will be detrimental to the sound.
还有一些吉他制琴公司,会把颜色悬浮在透明漆层之间,来制造一种三维效果。这当然酷歪歪了,但也让琴罩了太多层透明漆,会让琴声变差。

Nitrocellulose is a lacquer and is harder to work with. Nitro is what all the companies from Fender to Gibson to D' Angelico used to use in the 50's & 60's. Nitro is a much thinner finish than Poly and it doesn't clog the wood pores.  Some companies are putting a layer of Nitro over the Poly finishes to try and fool the end consumer or maybe to make the guitar turn yellow with age.  (More Stupidness)
硝酸纤维漆是一种更难掌握操作技巧的漆。硝基漆是在20世纪五六十年代普遍使用的漆,从Fender到Gibson到D' Angelico都用。硝基漆的漆层比聚酯漆薄得多,而且不会阻塞毛孔。有一些公司会在聚酯漆漆面上再喷一层硝基漆,用来糊弄最终的消费者,或者让吉他时间久了有变黄的做旧效果(我认为这几乎可以说是东施效颦了)。

Today only a few companies offer a Nitrocellulose option, I know that I do. However there are other ways to extract good tone from solid body guitars even using poly finishes.
现在公司们好像已经都不怎么爱用硝基漆了,当然,我这里还是可以的。不过现在也发明了很多新方法,即使是用聚酯漆,也能让实心的吉他发出更好听的音色。

The real key of course is thickness. An easy way to measure thickness is to unscrew your strap lock or strap pin and look inside the hole. If you can see a layer of filler like on ESP, Schecter, Jackson, & Ibanez you will know what I am talking about.
解决方式的真正关键,就在于厚度。一个简单的方法来测量漆面的厚度,就是拧下来你的吉他的背带扣,从螺丝孔往里看。如果你能看到一层像 ESP, Schecter, Jackson, & Ibanez都有的填料(应该是某种腻子),你就知道我在说什么了。

This filler stifles your tone. It dampens the resonance so much that you get a very dead tone. Ok, that may be fine if you are playing metal but a jazz guitarist or blues guitarist will want more natural overtones than one of those guitars generates.
这一层填料让声音发闷。填料抑制了共振,所以让声音听起来特别死巴。好吧,如果你是弹金属的,就当我没说;但如果是一个爵士乐手或者布鲁斯乐手,应该会更希望弹出来那些轻灵的泛音,而不是这种缺少共振的琴声。

Personally I like oil finishes over highly polished wood. That is absolutely the best way to achieve the most resonant overtones.
就我个人而言,其实我更喜欢用油做的表面处理,而不是把木头抛光抛的贼亮。这绝对是获得绕梁三日好声音的最佳方式。


3

Durability
耐用性

Nitro is nowhere near as durable as Poly. It's easy to see why those old fender finishes rubbed off over the years. That could never happen with today's modern finishes. Many people think the old guitars were made better than the new guitars. Part of the reason is, the older ones have stabilized over the years, and the finishes have thinned so that they are more resonant. (I believe that the new guitars are in almost every case better than the old vintage guitars)
硝基漆在任何一个方面的耐用性都不如聚酯漆。老Fender漆面的剥落有目共睹。这种情况在今天的新涂装工艺下几乎不会再出现了。很多人认为老琴做的比新琴好,一部分原因在于,用过很多年的老琴稳定性更好,漆面也都已经被磨薄了,所以出来的声音会更透亮(虽然我认为新琴哪哪都比老的年份吉他强)。

The other reason people tend to think old guitars are better is not quite as obvious.
人们倾向于认为旧吉他更好的另一个原因就没那么明显了。

Because during the early and mid nineties those guitars were selling for stupid money. Anyone who bought one would make absolutely sure he was using a good luthier to service the guitar. In the hands of the better luthiers, many things were fixed like sloppy neck joints, poor solder joints, lousy frets, cheapy fingerboards, etc etc. This of course resulted in the fact that the guitar was great. A guitar with a sloppy neck joint will not be stable. It will sound weak, A tight neck joint results in much better tone transference and of course the guitar will hold tune better if it's stabilized. (Another Myth Debunked) remember you heard it here first.
这是因为在九十年代早期和中期,卖吉他挣得都是傻钱。每一个买琴的人都坚信自己买的琴是出自高级制琴师之手。在这些更好的制琴师手里,很多东西都被修正改良了,比如松垮的琴颈栓接、简陋的电路、邋遢的品丝和廉价的指板等等。做到了这些当然就是一把好吉他。一个草率的琴颈不仅不结实,声音也会很差;一个连接的很紧的琴颈当然就在音调的转换上表现的更好,也能更好的把握旋律。(好吧又一个神话破灭了)记住,这话是我这先说的。

Years ago I did not realize this fact and I made several mistakes with finishes. When I started building the Quicksilvers in 1999 I delivered a couple of $1,395.00 models that were just tung oiled. When I played the first one I was amazed at the harmonic overtones coming off the instrument. It wasn't until I built & played the second one that I was a total believer.
几年前我还没有意识到这些,在漆面上犯过几次错误。1999年我刚开始建立快银公司的时候,我曾经发行过一对儿1395美元的型号,这两个型号的琴根本没上漆,仅仅上了桐油。当我弹第一个的时候,我对这把琴能发出如此和谐悦耳的声音感到吃惊,但弹了第二个以后,我就完全被征服毫不怀疑了。

I have made a statement that I would put my $1,695.00 economy model Quicksilver Guitar up against any post 1995 PRS over $20,000.00 and I would guarantee to blow it away tonally.
我曾经发出过一个声明,我可以拿我1695美元的经济型型号快银吉他,跟任何PRS1995年以后出的2万以上的琴比,我敢保证在音色上完胜它们。

No one has ever challenged me on this. That's a no brainer for me because the real expensive PRS models seem to have the most wood enhancing done and therefore they always have thicker finishes so I could hardly lose that one.
还没有谁能动摇我这个观点。这几乎是显而易见的,PRS那些特别贵的琴都用了特别强化后的木头,所以总是用厚厚的漆面去保护或者装饰,所以这场比试我几乎是不会输的。

To be totally honest my Quicksilver might not fare as well up against PRS's lower priced models. I have said and I always will say "The PRS lower priced 24 fret Classic models are without a doubt the best guitars PRS ever made" The pre 1995 PRS Classic sells for $2,200.00 and up post 1995 models sell as low as $1,000.00 The finishes were thinner on the older models and the wood was much more resonant. In fact the differences are obvious even to the untrained ear.
坦白讲,拿我的快银吉他跟PRS的便宜型号比不是很公平。我总是说,PRS那些便宜的24品经典型号毫无疑问是PRS做过的最好的琴。1995年之前的经典PRS能卖到2200美元,1995年之后的型号就只能卖到1000了。老琴上的漆面要薄的多,那些木头的回响也好得多。这些区别连没受过训练的人都能轻松听出来。

There are a lot of things written on this site about our industry leader.... PRS ? I recommend spending some time reading these reviews because a lot of the information is surprising.
好像……我们这篇文章写了好多关于咱们行业老大PRS的……话?我建议大家也都看看下面的评论,有很多都很有意思。

Poly finishes are rock hard and they don't fade as fast as Nitro either. If you spray them on thick like PRS or ESP does the guitar loses it's tonality. If you use a super thin coat like Hamer or JET the guitar will sound much better.
聚酯漆干了以后会变得很硬,而且不会像硝基漆一样褪色变黄。如果你把漆层喷的跟PRS或者ESP一样厚,就会让吉他丧失一些音色。如果你只喷一层超级薄的漆层,像Hamer或者JET一样,琴声表现会好得多。

Some of the best Nitro finishes I have seen are Terry McInturffs. Terry came from Hamer and he must have attended the Jol Dantzig school of guitar painting because his finishes are awesome. He might be using a hybrid of some kind, I am sure Terry won't tell me any of his secrets. Especially after I reviewed his guitar pretty badly on my site for everything else. I am not a huge fan of Terry's guitars but I always give credit where it is due. I do like his finish work.
我见过最好的硝基漆层是Terry McInturffs的。Terry曾经在Hamer工作,而且他在 Jol Dantzig的吉他学校学过喷漆,他的漆面做的简直惊艳。他可能是用了几种不同漆的混合物,当然了,他是不会告诉我他的独家秘诀的。在我仔仔细细的研究过他吉他的其他地方以后,我觉得他的吉他真的值得尊敬,尤其是完美的漆面。


4

Ease of Repair
修理的难易程度

In my shop we can repair anything!!! Nitro is easier to repair but less durable in the first place. Almost any competent shop can do Nitro repairs.
在我店里,什么都能修!(译者插播个广告,我吉他店里也是什么都能修!)硝基漆比较容易补,但是持久度差一些,只要是正常营业的店几乎都能补硝基漆。

Poly is durable but most people think it that it is not repairable. My shop has repaired some poly finishes so perfectly that they aren't even visible under a magnifying glass. When the chip is large it is much harder but it is possible. Call me for information regarding this. We fix PRS finishes on a daily basis.
聚酯漆持久度好一些,但是很多人认为这个漆面没法补。不过我的店修过一些聚酯漆的琴,非常完美,用放大镜都看不出来什么痕迹。如果破损面比较大,修补会更难,但也不是不能补。这方面的信息都可以打电话向我咨询。我们天天修PRS的漆都跟玩儿似的。(嗯,再插播一下,我们也完美修过一把红色的PRS!)


5

Fillers
填料

Many production companies use a thick coat of filler on the wood before they paint it. The filler tends to hide seams and a host of other problems. You cannot do this on an instrument that you want to extract a good tone from. The popularity of the early PRS guitars started because they used clear stained finishes that made it possible to see the actual wood. It was easy to tell that there was no filler there. PRS guitars were beautifully executed in the early days. The actual quality of the wood was without a doubt the best thing to have ever happened to date.
很多公司喜欢在喷漆之前涂一层厚厚的填料,这能盖住木头的拼缝跟其他同类的问题。但是这种事不会发生在一个想发出好声音的乐器上面。早期的PRS之所以流行,就是因为他们开始用了透明的色漆,让人们能清晰的看见琴体上的天然木纹。这很容易就能看出来没用腻子之类的东西。早期的PRS吉他成色确实漂亮,用的木材也毫无疑问是当时最好的。

PRS enjoys immense popularity today because of that. It's a shame that they no longer do anything that even comes close to those first guitars. In fact PRS will tell you their biggest competitor is their own early model guitars. "That's another story"
正因为如此,PRS广受欢迎。但是今天的情况不一样了,PRS已经不再做早年间那么优秀的吉他了,实际上,可以说,PRS现在最大的竞争对手不是别人,而是自己曾经出品的那些吉他们。


6

Gibson Finishes
吉布森的漆面

Look at the older Gibson guitars, Everyone agrees that the early ones sounded far better. In this business it's pretty rare for everyone to agree on anything. Look at the older Gibson's the seams are easily seen. Sometimes there are 3 contrasting pieces of wood on a Les Paul with a translucent finish. The seams look absolutely horrible but they did resonate better than the ones today that they pay more attention to the cosmetics of.
看看那些早期的吉布森,谁都能听出来那时候的声音比现在的琴好多了。在这一行里,让每个人能达成共识实在是太难了。早期的吉布森吉他,拼缝裂纹都显而易见,有时候连木纹相左的三拼,也都用透明漆来喷,毫不掩饰。虽然这些大缝看起来糟透了,但音色却的的确确比今天这些样子货好多了。


7
最后一段是落款

Still More To Come When I Get The Time
Ed Roman
有时间了还会回来的!
爱的罗曼(哈哈哈哈哈,看我翻译得这个作者人名可爱不?)

——完——
个人微信:mengmengjoy

发表于 2018-5-7 13:04:09 | 显示全部楼层
哈哈哈,好东西,赞
发表于 2018-5-7 15:06:27 | 显示全部楼层
谢谢  谢谢  谢谢分享
发表于 2018-5-7 16:09:57 | 显示全部楼层
又是ED ROMAN这个大嘴巴 专注黑PRS 30年
发表于 2018-5-7 18:47:35 | 显示全部楼层
这篇文章翻译的很好。。。ED ROMAN虽然是个颠倒黑白的不良商人,但是这篇文章写的很良心,科普佳作。

硝基漆原料的成本并不比聚酯漆高,但从制作成本角度,硝基漆的制作时间要远远高于聚酯漆,因此人工成本要高很多。

从音色角度,文章中所描述的漆面厚度对音色的影响,非常确切。

那么问题来了,同样是超薄硝基漆和超薄聚酯漆,音色哪家强?这个问题也是我自己的研究重点:

超薄聚酯漆基本都是 Urethane 漆面,在Nik Huber, Suhr 和 部分Fender Masterbuilt 中有用到。这种超薄Urethane 漆面相当有技术含量,涂层非常薄,侧光下,可以清晰看到木材纹路。这种漆面工艺基本是聚酯漆的极限了。

Gustavsson, Bartlett, Gil Yaron,Gibson R系 所使用的不含塑化剂的传统硝基漆面:这种漆面甚至都不能算漆面了,就是一个薄薄的硝基溶剂涂层,要极限Vintage音色,只能用这种不含塑化剂的传统硝基漆面。这种传统硝基漆面特别容易磨损,只要暴露在阳光和空气中就是自然做旧老化。

PRS High Gloss Nitro (高光硝基漆面),这种漆面的配方没有公开,这种硝基漆面超级薄,音色特别通透,而且漆面相对结实,不像传统硝基漆那么容易老化。侧光下,High Gloss Nitro 下的木纹像一根根血管,漆面就像一层超薄的皮肤。目前能做High Gloss Nitro (高光硝基漆面)的有PRS,Knaggs, McNaught 等品牌。

我自己的研究结果:只要是聚酯漆,即使是超薄聚酯漆,音色也是“铛铛”的,话句话说只要是聚酯漆(无论多薄),就肯定是现代音色。只有硝基漆的音色才是“咚咚”的,可以较为完全释放琴的共振(相对聚酯漆而言)。
发表于 2018-5-7 21:28:51 来自吉他中国的手机 | 显示全部楼层
牛逼的帖子
发表于 2018-5-7 22:08:09 | 显示全部楼层
这个好,谢谢~
发表于 2018-5-9 09:41:42 | 显示全部楼层
极速流星锤 发表于 2018-5-7 18:47
这篇文章翻译的很好。。。ED ROMAN虽然是个颠倒黑白的不良商人,但是这篇文章写的很良心,科普佳作。

硝基 ...

锤哥,如果裸奔呢,会啥音色
发表于 2018-5-9 11:22:49 | 显示全部楼层
violet 发表于 2018-5-9 09:41
锤哥,如果裸奔呢,会啥音色

我没接触过完全裸奔的吉他。最接近裸奔的漆面应该是Satin Finish (哑光漆面)和 Gunstock Oil Finish (枪托油漆面)。

Satin Finsih 和 Gunstock Oil Finish 这两种漆面的琴,我感觉共振都很充分,音色很开放。就音色而言,是很好的漆面选择。
发表于 2018-5-9 11:58:41 来自吉他中国的手机 | 显示全部楼层
充满了对金属和重型音乐乐手的歧视
发表于 2018-5-11 23:31:48 来自吉他中国的手机 | 显示全部楼层
就是闷葫芦和木头味的区别
发表于 2018-5-13 15:42:26 | 显示全部楼层
看着蛋疼
发表于 2018-5-14 15:33:12 | 显示全部楼层
 楼主| 发表于 2018-5-14 22:50:54 | 显示全部楼层
极速流星锤 发表于 2018-5-7 18:47
这篇文章翻译的很好。。。ED ROMAN虽然是个颠倒黑白的不良商人,但是这篇文章写的很良心,科普佳作。

硝基 ...

专业!非常感谢您的分享,收益匪浅~~
发表于 2018-5-15 11:18:13 | 显示全部楼层
极速流星锤 发表于 2018-5-7 18:47
这篇文章翻译的很好。。。ED ROMAN虽然是个颠倒黑白的不良商人,但是这篇文章写的很良心,科普佳作。

硝基 ...

可不可以理解为不喷任何漆,完全就是一块木头按上配件,声音是最好最自然的?
发表于 2018-5-15 12:51:07 | 显示全部楼层
weekershuo 发表于 2018-5-15 11:18
可不可以理解为不喷任何漆,完全就是一块木头按上配件,声音是最好最自然的? ...

这个问题,国外制琴师做过相关的论述和实验。

漆面本身就包含了特定的“音色”。国外制琴师做过相关实验,大部分吉他手还是喜欢带漆面的吉他音色多过裸木的吉他音色。
发表于 2018-5-15 13:07:34 | 显示全部楼层
极速流星锤 发表于 2018-5-15 12:51
这个问题,国外制琴师做过相关的论述和实验。

漆面本身就包含了特定的“音色”。国外制琴师做过相关实验 ...

也就是说漆面抑制一些细微的木头震动对相对于裸奔的声音更被大多数人所喜爱?
发表于 2018-5-15 13:26:43 | 显示全部楼层
weekershuo 发表于 2018-5-15 13:07
也就是说漆面抑制一些细微的木头震动对相对于裸奔的声音更被大多数人所喜爱? ...

我的理解是,漆面的存在(尤其是超薄硝基漆)使音色变得圆润,音色少了毛刺感,更符合大多数人对音色的偏好。

最顶级的古典吉他和木吉他都是带漆面的,我想漆面除了对木头的保护作用,肯定带漆面的音色是符合大部分人的音色审美。
发表于 2018-5-16 00:31:02 | 显示全部楼层
极速流星锤 发表于 2018-5-15 13:26
我的理解是,漆面的存在(尤其是超薄硝基漆)使音色变得圆润,音色少了毛刺感,更符合大多数人对音色的偏 ...

感谢大神解答,明白了
发表于 2019-2-13 01:14:11 | 显示全部楼层
极速流星锤 发表于 2018-5-9 11:22
我没接触过完全裸奔的吉他。最接近裸奔的漆面应该是Satin Finish (哑光漆面)和 Gunstock Oil Finish ( ...

锤哥请教   Fender  Cs都是硝基漆吗,我有一把sparke亮面的新CS,不确定是不是硝基漆,配置单好像没有关于漆面的描述
发表于 2019-2-13 09:49:43 | 显示全部楼层
循环子宫 发表于 2019-2-13 01:14
锤哥请教   Fender  Cs都是硝基漆吗,我有一把sparke亮面的新CS,不确定是不是硝基漆,配置单好像没有关 ...

Fender CS 和 MB 常用的漆面有2种:硝基漆(Nitro Lacquer)或 聚氨酯(Polyurethane)

CS和MB的原厂详细配置单里,都有关于琴体和琴颈所用漆面类型的描述,需要仔细找一下。
发表于 2019-2-13 18:28:08 | 显示全部楼层
循环子宫 发表于 2019-2-13 01:14
锤哥请教   Fender  Cs都是硝基漆吗,我有一把sparke亮面的新CS,不确定是不是硝基漆,配置单好像没有关 ...

Sparkle是Polyurethane的机会比较大。
Nitrocellulose一般比较难做出金属质感很强的颜色(尽管不是绝对不能),所以60年代元年Fender、Gibson很少有金属色的。
发表于 2019-2-21 13:46:32 | 显示全部楼层
看帖顶帖
发表于 2019-3-26 15:34:04 | 显示全部楼层
Ed Roman,也是个不讨人喜欢的狠人
发表于 2019-3-29 23:28:34 来自吉他中国的手机 | 显示全部楼层
李鸣 发表于 2019-3-26 15:34
Ed Roman,也是个不讨人喜欢的狠人

鸣哥现在没事还逛论坛啊
发表于 2019-7-6 09:39:31 来自吉他中国的手机 | 显示全部楼层
极速流星锤 发表于 2019-2-13 09:49
Fender CS 和 MB 常用的漆面有2种:硝基漆(Nitro Lacquer)或 聚氨酯(Polyurethane)

CS和MB的原厂详 ...

再次请教版主前辈,最近入手一把CS nocaster 1951 NOS,  无做旧,表面亮光漆,感觉漆稍微厚,调琴颈的时候发现是底漆外面多了一层透明的漆,敢问这种还算硝基漆吗,  有一点想做旧,但是目前还不敢下手
发表于 2019-7-6 22:47:01 | 显示全部楼层
循环子宫 发表于 2019-7-6 09:39
再次请教版主前辈,最近入手一把CS nocaster 1951 NOS,  无做旧,表面亮光漆,感觉漆稍微厚,调琴颈的时 ...

这个级别的就别自己做旧了 卖了 买做旧好的吧
发表于 2019-8-10 02:12:35 来自吉他中国的手机 | 显示全部楼层
喜欢gibson standard是什么漆?硝基漆吗?
发表于 2019-8-10 16:22:45 | 显示全部楼层
Gibson87 发表于 2019-8-10 02:12
喜欢gibson standard是什么漆?硝基漆吗?

gibson standard是硝基漆
发表于 2019-9-12 11:31:02 | 显示全部楼层
看你们讨论了这个多关于漆面的理论问题。就没个粗来说说具体实用些的东西吗?我在某宝搜索底漆面漆清漆等关键字,出来的每一个对上号的,参擦不齐,对于新手真是一头雾水。好比楼主说确定好用聚酯漆或硝基漆后的4个步骤,能有具体操作步骤和调制步骤最好!
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